HI BBM

Wish you luck with your appeal, let us know if you have any joy.

Does it greatly affect the insurance of vehicle if it is classed as a "van with windows"?

I'm just about to embark on a VW conversion and had intended on changing the use of vehicle to camper van but have heard a few stories of the DVLA changing the goal posts...

Regards Vic

 hi all it seems that it is all now possible, here is the txt copied and pasted from ukmotorhomes - at the moment its the 3rd article down:

DVLA revise their rule change on campervan conversions

[last updated 13th September 2011]
Up until recently anyone who converted a commercial vehicle to a motorhome or campervan could apply to the DVLA for the 'body type' classification on the V5C Registration Document to be changed to 'motor caravan'. However we heard that recent requests to change the body type classification were being refused by DVLA.

We asked them what new criteria were being applied, this is the response we received:

When describing the external appearance of a vehicle DVLA applies a 'reasonableness test' which is based on how a member of the public or police would describe the vehicle in traffic or if parked on the road. This is a longstanding procedure. Whilst vehicles kept or used on public roads in Great Britain must meet both domestic and European regulations such as Type Approval, DVLA body type descriptions are a separate entity to approval requirements. 

However, as DVLA have recently seen an increase in the number of applications to change the body type description on the vehicle registration document (V5C) to motor caravan, we reviewed the body type description 'motor caravan' in conjunction with the police and the ABI. 

There was a clear consensus that the body type should reflect the outward appearance of a vehicle rather than its internal fixtures and fittings. As a result only vehicles first registered as motor caravans or those fitted with a custom coach built bodies, in addition to meeting the internal 'checklist' should be described as 'motor caravan' on the V5C. 

We are aware that some motorists have complained that insurance premiums can be higher if the body type for converted vehicles does not show motor caravan. However the ABI have advised that insurance premiums would normally be calculated based on the information provided by the customer. They further advised that customers should make their insurers aware of any modifications made to the vehicle and this would be taken into account when the premium is calculated.

This seemed to us to represent a very narrow interpretation of the term 'motor caravan' and appeared to impose much stricter requirements than those required by EU Type Approval legislation. Taken at face value it seems to mean that NO conversions of any type of vehicle that has been previously registered will be able to re-register with a change of body type to motor caravan (unless they have had a coachbuilt body fitted), even bone-fide professional conversions that any reasonable person would consider to be a motor caravan.

It had implications for speed limits, since the term 'motor caravan' is used to determine that passenger vehicle, rather than goods vehicle, speed limits apply. MOT tests are another potential problem area where the type of test which is applicable may be affected if a vehicle is not described as a motor caravan on the V5C. For vehicles over 3500kg GVW it is possible that the regulations relating to drivers hours and the fittment of speed limiters and tachographs may also apply if the vehicle is not described as a motor caravan on the V5C.

We now hear that, following many complaints about the new policy, they have re-examined the issue. We asked for an explanation of the revised policy and received the following:

Apologies for the delay in replying we have been further reviewing our policy around the allocation of bodytype descriptions for motorcaravans taking into account the views of customers/key stakeholders like yourself. Recognising the impact the policy may have on professional converters and our customers who self build I am pleased to inform you that following a further review the policy will allow greater flexibility for vehicles which have been modified both internally and externally from the manufacturers original specification after first registration and consideration will be given to conversions which have been carried out professionally where the customer can provide documentary evidence from the converter or a self build conversion where the customer can provide documentary evidence of the build.

In addition to documentary evidence customers will still be required to provide external and internal photographic evidence of the conversion/build and also return their V5C for amendment. As previously advised cases can vary significantly and DVLA deals with each case individually, based on the photographic and documentary evidence provided by the customer/registered keeper. DVLA will continue to consider applications requesting a change of body type description but we will need to consider both the internal and external appearance of a vehicle. I should advise you that conversions will still be required to meet the internal criteria required for a motorhome/motorcaravan but greater flexibility will be applied to the external appearance of a vehicle.

We submitted photos of a panel van, which had been converted some years after it's original registration, to them for appraisal. Under the 'original' revised policy, as far as we can tell, it would have been classed as a 'van with windows', now they have confirmed that it would be classified as a 'motor caravan'.

It seems to us that there should now be no difficulty in registering a conversion as a motor caravan, providing that the conversion meets the 'reasonableness test' and that the exterior has been modified by at least having windows fitted.

 I was wondering if any one could help me I have recently converted my van and it meets all the requirements of a converion as far as I can tell but the DVLA refused to reclassify it. It was refused down to the exterior not being modified. At the time of the conversion I didnt see the need to convert the exterior but I was wondering if anyone could tell me what kind of things I could do to the exterior that would classify it as a camper-van?

Any info would be much apriciated

 I was wondering if any one could help me I have recently converted my van and it meets all the requirements of a converion as far as I can tell but the DVLA refused to reclassify it. It was refused down to the exterior not being modified. At the time of the conversion I didnt see the need to convert the exterior but I was wondering if anyone could tell me what kind of things I could do to the exterior that would classify it as a camper-van?

Any info would be much apriciated

 Hi,

As far as I can work out from the info I have found, if it looks like a van its a van but if it looks like a motorhome it is.

Im guessing this means windows external lockers for maybe gas and cartridge loo, bike rack, awning, dodgy paint job or decor and im sure there are more things you could kit the outside of a van with.

How much one needs to do I dont know, maybe have a look at some purpose built motorhomes for some ideas.

Im about to do my own LWB Master and ill just do all I reasonaby can to the exterior to ensure it will be re-clasified.

Sorry I cant help more, Maybe someone out there will know more specific details, if you find better info give me a heads up.

Cheers

Joe

Hi Joe,

Thanks for ther info. I have just yesterday painted the top half of my camper baby blue (definetly dodgy paint job) and coverd it with flowery stickers I have also stripped of my window tint so you can see in to the cooker etc. this is my second aplication  so I'll let you know how it goes.

Cheers

Toby

 hi  you need side windows both sides.

Newbie alert!

We have a Peugeot Boxer mini-bus was are about to start converting. It has windows all round so that covers that base....!

What documentation do I need to send to the DVLA? The log book obviously, along with a letter and photos of the conversion in progress to the final finished thing? Or can it be tested before the log book is sent off?

Many thanks!

Hi There

I got turned down on my second aplication and my van had all the specifications including side windows its still worth a try but I ended up selling mine as I cant now drive it in london

good luck

So, like Toby, our application to the dvla was unsucsessful, due to it not looking like a motor home from the outside. we have the windows, interier etc sorted. it doesn't help that they're being so vague. if they simply said, just add some stickers, or more showy curtains, or paint it etc, then we would know what to do.

can anyone help, or at least point us in the right direction. i don't want to get the paint out and make a mess of the van unless i know it's going to do some good. does anyone have any examples or pictures of sucsessful motor home conversions (with a modified exterier). would be particularly reassuring to see an ex minibus externally modified sucsessfully.

thanks, andrew

Hi,

About 2 years ago I started my conversion. It took about a year to do in the eveings and at weekends. The conversion was to the DLVA standards (collected my list of specifications from the local office).

When I tried to change the V5, I was told that it could only be to "van with side windows" as the basic shape of the van had not changed. The argument is that the police or a member of the public would describe it as a van rather than a motorhome, so that is why it can't be classed as a motorhom etc.

I'm not sure if a lifting roof would be enough to change the appearance, but at the end of the day, anything in mine that makes it look like a camper could (in theory) be removed.

The annoying thing is that I did more work than I needed to as far as the insurance company was concerned just to conform to the DVLA standards.

Ho Hum!

Dave

I bought a long wheel base hi top transit to convert,for the DVLA,i TOOK PHOTOS OF EVERY STEP i DID,First of all I took pics inside and out then I had to travel 130 miles to get 2 rear windows fitted,more pics taken,

I then started to do the ceiling and all cupboards,I bought a hob from ebay and a seperate sink from my local caravan shop as this is a requirement of the DVLA,

after I got the seating and flooring sorted,I sent half a dozen pics off with my V5 and to my amazement it came back with the magical "Motor Caravan" in place

The van was a former delivery van and is painted silver and green but I'm getting it resprayed white soon and hope it doesn't cause a problem for me,

From start to finish it took me around 3 months and I now pay £400 less for my insurance 

I'm starting to wonder whether it's worth re-classifying a van conversion and spending money on windows etc. I've only the most modest of wee vans- a VX Combo kitted out with no more than storage and sleeping area(but 60mpg!), but after a week in it in the NW highlands sea kayaking  I realised that in a few places me and a few mates wild camped, all in  "commercial" vehicles they couldn't hassle us- ie  "no caravans or campervans" meant nothing! The legality of this on A/Trunk roads has been challenged and defeated (the "No Overnight Parking" signs are illegal). But I got to thinking that, like my mate in his high top swb Ducato "white van", why not get a few sun roofs put in- then you could park up anywhere, be assumed as a commercial and not hassled, no one knows you're inside but at night a braw view of the stars....

I'm planning on a bigger van this year, just for more space for kit and living in. Not interested in fitting it out as a home from home, just some heating/insualation and a decent bed and seat- with wet kit storage.

Hi,

I've finally finished converting my Suzuki carry van into a camper...complete with raising roof.  I now want to re-register it as a camper van with the DVLA but do not know how to go about it or what forms I need. I hope someone can advise me as to how to go about it, any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Sara

Hi Sara,

I've replied on your main post.

Dave

I am so glad I found this site! seems like the world (DVLA) as gone crazy!

You may have to bear with me as Im not up to speed on requirements for the DVLA classification, we have lived in France for the last 12yrs.

Anyway, we plan to travel Europe in a camper for a couple of years, having fully fitted out 2 narrowboats in the past I am considering converting a vehicle to a motorhome, maybe a coach, we are not sure yet, but my point.

One of the biggest problems as I understand it traveling Europe in a campervan is you are a prime target for crime, we have several friends who have had their campervans broken into numerous times throughtout Europe, so personally I was considering going down a route similar to lvquestpaddler

I was thinking of instead of converting a coach it would be far safer to convert a commercial vehicle and as the windows are the weakest point, going for roof windows with maybe a remote shutter on the back of the vehicle so it could be fited with windows but then shuttered when left or at night, of course this would mean we dont stand a cat in hells chance of a "campervan" classification.

Having read through all the replies to this post it also seems that the opinion of the person at DVLA dealing with the application on the day seems to be a major factor, just the point of needing a "dodgy paint job" to make it look more campervan-ish seems totally crazy!

It does beg the question what would a comercial vehicle converted to a high standard with roof lights be classed as? a van without windows???

Since my original post, the DVLA have accepted my conversion. I re-submitted the same original photos, a covering letter, and the check-list supplied originally by the DVLA and they accepted the conversion.

I have side windows on both sides, all the normal fixtures and fittings but no change to the exterior.

Since getting DVLA approval, I have also had a listing roof installed, so I guess the van looks even more like a camper now.

Dave

Please give me a copy of what you did bit by bit, because if you done it right, l want to too. PLEASE .

Kind Regard Elvina

I emailed the DVLA and got the following responces hope it helps.

I asked what thr requirment was to get my van reclassified as a motor caravan, just fot referance it's a X reg merc Vito

Thank you for your email received on 19/8/13. Your email reference number is 1465584.

The vehicle is required to display the following characteristics in order to meet the interpretation of “Motor Caravan”:-

Seats and a Table

• integral part of vehicle living accommodation area, (mounted independently of other items)
• table capable of being mounted directly to the vehicle floor and/or side wall 
• table mounting arrangement secured is a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed or welded) although table may be detachable 
• seats secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side-wall 
• seats secured as a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed or welded) 

Sleeping Accommodation

• integral part of vehicle living accommodation area  
• either beds or beds converted from seats (to form a mattress) 
• secured as a permanent feature, (with base structures bolted, riveted, screwed or welded) 
• secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side wall, (unless provision over driver’s cab compartment) 

Cooking Facilities

• integral part of vehicle living accommodation, (mounted independently of other items) 
• secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side wall 
• secured as a permanent feature, (bodied, riveted, screwed or welded) 
• minimum of two ring cooking facility or microwave equipped in either case with fuel/power source

Storage Facilities

• cupboard / Locker
• integral part of vehicle living accommodation (mounted independently of other items, unless incorporated below seat/sleeping accommodation or the cooker)
• secured as a permanent feature (bolted, riveted, screwed or welded) 
• secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side wall (unless provision over driver’s cab compartment)

Hi

Please help!

I'm looking at getting a new VW camper van and trying to work out if its important that the one I get has the European Whole Vehicle Type Approval. Ive read lots of websites on this including the largely unhelpful Vehicle Type Approval site and am struggling to find a decent answer.

From what I can tell European Whole Vehicle Type Approval should be mandatory on all new Motor Caravans as of April 2012. However it still seems possible to have vehicles registered as Light Goods Vehicles then subsequently convert them to Motor Caravans - as discussed on this forum. Quite a few converters seem to do this. Although the big ones (Bilbo, Danbury etc) have European Whole Vehicle Type Approval.

The European Whole Vehicle Type Approval thing seems good as it means that the safety of the van design has been tested and approved which presumably also helps with resale values too.

But is this generally perceived as being important as so many converters seem to just work around it?

I really dont want to buy a van that in 3 years  I cant sell at the price I hope to because it does have this.

Any guidance muchly appreciated!
 

Hi BBM

Thanks for this - good ideas, particularly the one about getting the converter to get the approval. Will do.

It also seems that some professional converters redo the type approval so that their conversion approach is approved. Why do it twice?

Thanks everyone.

EasilyConfused

It's a little confusing whether they will re-register or not.

I don't think it should matter with the police as they can and usually do a check on the vehicle and would see it was a camper. To members of the public, does it really matter if they tell someone it's a van or a camper. If someone needs to report it then they would report by reg number?

Glenn

The easier way is to fit all your inside etc and when you are taking pictures take them with the gaz cooker/hob ON the water ON and running into the sink, any fitted lighting ON etc leave some cupboard doors open that kind of thing!! an external pullout awning is a good addition as is a bike rack or roof box or if like my last one ALL three but I also had a pop top so if you can afford to do the whole jewson lot basically keep ALL receipts and photo as you go......... and submit a copy CD with your application that's what I did and passed first time

BUT - Be warned the cost difference between a Motorhome and the van it's based on is a significant one at today's values a 2000 say VW T4 van say builders van, one owner, FSH and well looked after is worth circa £2000 (maybe) where as the same van with added windows camper kit and pop top is costing you around circa £8000 but ia worth all day long £11.500 - £12.500 hoping you see why it makes such a difference as A you loose about £4000 when selling on open market and a whopping £10.000 almost if written off or non fixable so you makes your choices guys I know what mine has and wiill be once again.

Cheers
Doug